240p Test Suite

Gracias a ti =)

JCallef1 year ago

Hello Artemio. I was wondering if you're working on an n64 and ps2 version on the 240p test suite? I would love to calibrate my crt tv with those systems in mind.

SpeakingJake1 year ago

Hello, you mentioned in a comment below about releasing an updated Wii version with the Monoscope pattern. Is there any new info on that?

Yes, I am sorry. It will be releases this week. I am just fixing some other details

ajshell11 year ago

I know I'm a bit early with the thanks, but I'd just like to say that I really appreciate that you're adding it to the Wii. I've been using my Wii a lot for testing, and I'm quite confident that the monoscope pattern is going to help me out quite a lot.

I was actually considering the purchase of a used Sencore VP403 but I don't see the need for it now.

In really glad to read that, than you.

it's been released now.

Take care!

SpeakingJake1 year ago

That sounds great, thank you for the update and all of your work!

FantasyMan1 year ago

Hello, I’ve tried using this on a Homebrewed Wii, but the application always freezes my system. Is there something that I’m doing wrong?

Have you tried other homebrew apps? What are the results with them? This is the first tie that I get such a report. I don't discard the possibility that something is wrong, but would like to know more about this. Where does it freeze?

FantasyMan1 year ago

It freezes right on launch. I’ve had success with 90% of my other homebrew apps. The only troubleshooting I did was delete it then redownload it from the “Homebrew Browser” app; that yielded freezing on startup as well.

Please try downloading it from here and installing it manually

FantasyMan1 year ago

I tried that multiple times for my first attempts and that led to freezing.

goyopuma1 year ago

Hola! Disculpen mi ignorancia, pero ¿como puedo grabar el programa en CD para Dreamcast ? Para calibrar unas Tv's CRT que tengo.

¿Necesito algún programa? Hice, mi pequeña donación, pero no encuentro ningún vídeo de como hacerlo. XD

Que tal, muchas gracias por el apoyo e interés!

Sí, la tienes que grabar a CD o usar un GDEMU si lo tienes. Para greabar a CD te recomiendo imgburn con el plug in de discjuggler.

Imgburn lo descargas acá

Y hasta abajo d ela página está el Padus .CDI File Mounter v1.0.0.12, que también tienes que descargar e instalar después de que instales imgburn. Para instalarlo copias la dll al folder de instalación (por ejemplo C:\Program Files (x86)\ImgBurn)

Ya con eso instalado, grabas el la imagen .cdi seleccionandolo desde el software (Write image file to disc) y lo grabas a disco

goyopuma1 year ago

Muchísimas gracias Master Artemio! Seguiré sus indicaciones.

DarlingDash1 year ago

Hi, your program has helped me lots and im very happy it exists. Just commenting to say, Thank you. :)

fjchaga1 year ago

Hi, what would be the recommended version to test on a pandora box, im looking for something similar to test and adjust a crt tube here. thanks!

I honrar don't know, but I wouldn't expect it to have proper aspect ratio so I would ignore that part.

Regarding color and levels, any would do since those should be converted to analog in the same way for all digital values without regards to the original system levels

luchario001 year ago

Hello! Any update on when the monoscope pattern will get added to the Wii version?

I've been waiting on some unrelated parts to be done, but I will release it without those and all other updates I've made next week. thanks for bringing me to my senses.

luchario001 year ago

Thanks for your reply and all the work you do! That would be great and much appreciated.

impetus_maximus1 year ago(+1)

Just wanted to say THANKS for making, and maintaining this amazing tool. it's so nice to be able to dial in a TV/monitor for my AVS, Super Nt, MegaRetronHD, and for my soon to be shipped Mega Sg.

cheers!

Thank you for letting me know, it is really appreciated

Deleted post1 year ago

Deleted 95 days ago

I am sorry, the tool as it is makes no sense without game console hardware and 240p video.

What do you plan to achieve?

Deleted post1 year ago

Deleted 95 days ago

AetheralMeowstic1 year ago

That's what out of my scope, sorry. There's no fixed Hardware to work with

Why does the Wii version not have the convergence pattern?

It still needs to be updated.

gbpxl1 year ago(-1)

It might be worth noting that using a CD-R with the 240p test suite on it (or any CD-R for that matter) can damage the laser lens. I am convinced that that is what happened to mine based on conversations Ive had with other people familiar with the Dreamcast

Artemio1 year ago(+1)

The 240p Test Suite on Dreamcast does a single load on boot to minimize any laser usage, and does no further reading.

There are units out there that heavily used backups, and the units themselves are 20+ years old now.

Unfortunately we don't have any reliable data, just a few posts that are years old claming that.

I am sorry to hear about your trouble.

Woodtec11 year ago(+1)

I figure that I might as well toss my hat into this ring as I have a little experience in the matter.

the CDR and DVDR killing consoles only applies to a single console series, the PS2. the PS2 has a security chip in it that was an attempt by Sony to control piracy.

it works by detecting that the disc is hard to read and then sends overload current to the laser, burning it out. its the reason that the fat PS2 has a horrible failure rate as the chip could not determine the difference between a scratched disk and a reproduction. causing the chip to kill a PS2 that was using the correct game disc.

A mod used to exist to bypass the chip and if you are going to use reproduction disks I suggest tracking one of them down. otherwise you are risking the drive burning out.

on using CDR with Retro hardware there is a general rule of thumb. the older the console, the less sensitive the drive is to drive faults. that and modern drives have a habit of automatically correcting errors that where there in the original disc. so when the game tells the cd drive to go to the exact sector of the disk to read the data there and it misreads the data becouse its now earlier on the disk causing the game to fault out.

When burning CDR for older consoles what you need to do is buy good CDR and Burn at the lowest possible speed available. The slow burn rate makes the game run better in the long run.

how the drive works is that the drive is expecting sharp transitions from 1 to 0 in the data of the disk. CDR works by using a laser to burn a wavy pattern into the substrate of the disc. newer drives correctly read the CDR by being far more sensitive in the reading department so it reads them correctly.

Older drives where built in an era that the CD industry where trying to kill off CDR as they saw it as stealing their revenue. many manufactures made their drives so that they would make it hard to use CDR. the drives in the consoles where usually just off the shelf components with a special output.

combine age with the fact that drives usually add more power to the laser lens to read dirty disks and you have a recipe that is a plausible reason for the CDR kill drives argument. neglecting the fact that they forgot that the 20/30 year old drive itself needs preventive maintenance from time to time. most people don't know that the components in the consoles where usually the cheapest that where available and didn't know that several components need to be replaced on a 10/15 year interval unless they fail and burn out a chip that is unreplaceable. (Free tip is to avoid the Jag-CD as cheap custom chips are what is failing in them)

The CD/CDR war is fascinating in its own way as it set many standards in odd ways. if you want to read some weird stuff and are ready to get lost in the dumbest, pettiest rabbit hole you have ever seen look some of it up. the reason that MP3s didn't have the right volume when burned to a cd made me chuckle as its kind of stupid.

I use TY disks for anything from the 90s back. they say that they are out of manufacture but that is not exactly true. their discs are just sold under a different label. same tech, different name.

gbpxl1 year ago

Does the Dreamcast microphone test work for everyone else? After I record and hit playback, I can only hear static. I tried both 11khz and 8khz, with the pad on and off. Just static. I did buy it used, so I'm wondering if the microphone no longer works.

philippemorin1232 years ago

It was developed and tested using three microphones, but your model might differ. Could you check the device information under the hardware tools -> Maple Device List? The select the microphone and press A. A screenshot of the resulting data will tell me if this is a different model that has different characteristics.

Hi! Has the Wii version been updated with Extrems' 480p fix? Thanks!

Artemio2 years ago(+1)

Hello. yes it should be patched in the pubic binary. The wii suite still will be updated with HCFR, but meanwhile here is the current build with all the changes: https://we.tl/t-sR0CecfHRQ

philippemorin1232 years ago

Thanks! I downloaded the file on WeTransfer. I have to admit I don't really know what "HCFR" means thought. :P I'm not into serious preservation. 😅 I just want to better understand how the Wii looks on my modern displays.

Artemio2 years ago(+1)

Best Regards, HCFR is for display calibration using a colorimeter: https://artemiourbina.itch.io/240p-test-suite/devlog/405605/dreamcast-release-20...

mjmonjure2 years ago

Hi, just to make sure I understand the process of using the test suite... although I will download multiple console 240p test suites in the one download file, I only need one of the console test suites to test my CRT (assuming the one I use covers the video input ports I use), correct?

AetheralMeowstic1 year ago

In general, yes. But different consoles produce slightly different signals. It all depends on what your goal is, since the suite serves a dual purpose: document the platform for comparison against FPGAs and emulation and CRT calibration, amongst others.
Using several will show you how they differ. Some consoels are slightly to teh left, some to teh top, etc.. colors also vary. All try to match the best that particular hardware, and my understanding, allows.

BarrowRoll2 years ago

Any update on when we'll see the Monoscope pattern available on the Wii version?

I wanna know, too

gorimaa2 years ago

Hello, do you think it could be possible to have a simplified DVD version, just like a video DVD playable in any dvd player ? i am abroad and i would like to test crt in a shop . I ddoubt dvd player would output 240p more 480i, but it could be usefull just to test color and geometry :)

https://www.retrorgb.com/freecalrec601-dvds-for-calibrating-crts.html

Those already exist =)

gorimaa2 years ago

Thank you so much for reply

In fact i was really more trying to find a kind of replica if 240p suite, more to be able to test geometry and scrolling problem on a potential flat CRT i could test in shop before buying

I see. Well i have no current version like that, it would have it's own set of limitations and options, since it would be bound by the DVD format. But some of the other calibration DVDs out there do offer geometry and resolution patterns, like AVIA and DVE.

Yes, they are only 480i of course. DVD can't do 240p. I recommend you try them out, they might do what you want.

MiSTer FPGA is another great portable option for testing via RGBS or component if that is what is to be tested.

I used to take a Dreamcast for those =)

Gameszzz2 years ago

Is the GameCube version out of production anymore? Controller test will not be added ?

It will be added, I hope to release it soon. But it is in production, it will have that and Monoscope

So upon learning that the pixel aspect ratio for SNES and NES are 8:7, I realize now that the monoscope pattern with the red squares in correct, so I apologize. I had no idea that consoles didnt just display square pixels. What other consoles had rectangular pixels besides NES and SNES?

Artemio2 years ago(+1)

All of them.

i found the list. its missing quite a few, including Dreamcast, 3DO, Jaguar. how do you figure out the ratios?

DarkBeemo2 years ago

I can't get the PS1 version of this to work with ULaunchElf and PopStarter on the PS2; what do I do?

Artemio2 years ago (1 edit)

Hello, I'm sorry but I honestly don't know outside of the developer advise. I didn't make that version, and have not tested it or validated it.

Best regards

Darukkubitto2 years ago

Hello! first of all thank you for this tool! is amazing!!!

I do have a question please: I downloaded the Dreamcast version yesterday and I've played a lot with the Horizontal and Vertical Size and position, but I find weird that the upper and lower border red lines are not present in this version. (if I make the Vertical smaller I can see just a portion of the red upper line (for the right half only) and just a portion of the red bottom line (for the left right only) so is kinda weird.

Also on another note I found those little curvy lines at the upper corners so I'd like some advice to try to fix them please!

Artemio2 years ago(+2)

Hello! Great you are finding it useful.
Something weird mut be hapening in your setup, since the lines in the grid are there.
The curvy lines could be that capacitors need replacement or that you need to work on the settings, but each TV is different.
My advice would be not to obsess over small details, since geometry on CRTs is always imperfect.
Cheers!

Darukkubitto2 years ago

Thank you! Artemio! will try to fix the sharpness with the switch in the back and see if that helps as well.

gbpxl2 years ago(+1)

I have curviness in the upper corners of my PVM. I have never heard of anyone being able to fix that.

Darukkubitto2 years ago

guess it will stay like that then lol ty!

It depends on the model, settings, capacitors and magnetic strips and field. Also on teh extremes you are willing to go to.

casteleyro2 years ago

Saludos Artemio, y cual seria la version para poder usarlo en mi PC con windows 10, se puede?

homeofthebadguys2 years ago

Que tal, en ese caso te recomiendo utilizar software de calibración para PC.

A native Playstation 2 version of this tool would be great.

Getting POPSTARTER working with Filip Alac's PSX version can be quite cumbersome.

As for the tool itself it's great and all, especially for calibrating tube TVs, even when you're just using composite or RF (as I need to for my Sony KV-1924 set).

Yes, thank you. Hopefully it can be done in the future

sjlevy2 years ago

a DOS version would be cool for retro PC enthusiasts. useful for testing graphics cards and CRTs. but i guess that might be tricky with lots of graphics modes and resolutions so i can see how that wouldn't be considered

It is considered, but I'd need an expert in the platform. MDfourier for the many devices would be awesome as well.

teamultrarare2 years ago

I'd love a finished N64 version!

I'll try to get back to it next year

Astroboy772 years ago

Buenas Artemio, cual sería el formato adecuado a descargar tu 240psuite para usar en Mister ?

El de la consola que quieras probar.

gbpxl2 years ago (2 edits)

I don't trust the monoscope pattern in the Dreamcast 1.29 release. The Genesis and SNES ones looked fine, but it's definitely not a perfect square (the red) on my monitors when I leave the settings as they are.

2.43% wider than it is tall. Tried this on multiple monitors.

I just double checked it with the Genesis version. I get a perfect red square. So yeah, check the DC version against the other ones and let me know what you find.

Thank you, we did check it. But we'll check again, are you using PAL, NTSC or VGA? 240p or 480i? They are all different

NTSC. 240p. Sony PVM-2530 as well as an old Mitsubishi CRT from 1992.

It has been verified as proper several times:
https://twitter.com/khmr33/status/1548717772984696838

playab0yyy2 years ago

Hi Artemio. I don’t think I’ll have any trouble using the 240p Test Suite, but I have some questions about getting it and initial usage.

1) I understand I can download your software here, but if I want to use it on the SNES or Genesis with a cartridge, where do I get the actual cartridge?

2) I’ll be using it primarily to straighten out the image/geometry on a Sony Trinitron KV-36FS210. If I use it with a SNES on component (say input #3) and get the settings where I like them, will those settings remain if I use a Genesis on the same component input (input #3)? Or will I need to calibrate using the Genesis as well even though I’m on the same input I used to calibrate with SNES?

3) After getting the geometry straight on component input #3 with the SNES, will those settings carry over to component input #4, or will I have to calibrate component input #4 with the SNES separately?

4) This is probably answered with number 2 above, but just to make sure… if I download your software, burn it to a disc and use a Sega CD or Dreamcast on component input #3, will the calibration settings remain for any other consoles I use on the same input, or do I have to calibrate each different console on the same input?

Hello, thank you for your comments. My replies below:

1) There are third party sellers, with which I have no business association. They are listed in the wiki: https://junkerhq.net/240p/
I'd recommend asking for them to download teh latest version before shipping you a cart, since I've updated several times and don't know their process.

2) I don't own a KV-36FS210, so I can't tell you how it works. In other words, it is device dependant how each TV stores its settings. SOme do it by input, some are general.

Regarding switching consoles, you'll have a general calibration with either version. But each console has its own daeviations, so you might find there are differences. You'll need to find a balance that works for you.

3) Again, no idea. Depends on your TV.

4) This is answered in 2

playab0yyy2 years ago

Thank you!

BurningTrees2 years ago

Could a version for the original Playstation be made please? You also would be knocking out 2 consoles with one program since the PS2 is backwards compatible :D Thank you!

Thanks for your comment. There's a port made by another developer, but it is indeed in my plans to eventually work on the psx version.

Take care

Regarding the monoscope: You say that if the aspect ratio is set correctly, the red parallelograms will appear as perfect squares. However, I am getting slightly different results. If I run Sonic the Hedgehog in standard 320x224, the middle part of the sunflowers appear as perfect circles, and the lives icon with Sonic's face appears as a perfect square. And also, the squares at the top of the monoscope appear as perfect 14x14 squares. But if I stretch the picture so that the red "squares" become perfect squares, I no longer have perfect geometry. And even if I stretch the 320x224 picture to 320x240, the red "square" becomes 105x102px

The pattern follows the proper video standard. In other words, if you had a CRT back then or today, and it was properly calibrated to the manufacturer and standard specifications, they would look like so.

Check out this interview to a developer:

In other words, SEGA artists admitted that they had no idea about the dot clock and were making games with such issues. The engineers that designed the hardware didn't tell them, so they were clueless.

Thanks. Can you point to any HUDs or objects in a Genesis title that are supposed to be squares/circles so that I can cross reference it with Keith Reney's squares?

You can try this experiment yourself. Load up the 320x224 monoscope pattern into an emulator, take a screenshot and put it into Paint. Stretch the vertical size to 240 so that youre looking at a 4:3 picture, the measure the red "squares." theyre going to be off.

ok i think i see where the problem may lie. in Paint, when you stretch the picture, its not stretching the middle part of the pattern...

that sounds like a terrible tool for the job then...

But then again, yo are trusting the emulator PAR, and not the console output or a well calibrated CRT to standards.

herniaflange2 years ago

Hello, and thank you for making this! I'd like to request a version made for the Sega Saturn if possible. I saw below in a reply that you're targeting systems with Open Source SDKs, and the Saturn does have one!

https://www.jo-engine.org/

I know the Saturn is a strange beast to program for, but it'd be very helpful to hyper-specialized weirdos like me who happen to only have that for interfaces with analog outputs and the ability to put homebrew software in. Thank you again!

Thank you! Yes Saturn is considered, I looked at jo-engine years ago and it used the official SDK then. I need to check it now, but it seems to have changed a lot. Thanks for the heads up!

RetroGretch2 years ago

What happened to the Linearity test on the MegaDrive/Genesis version. Can't find it anywhere. Am I missing something?